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Pursuing Passions with the I’m Also a Doctor Docuseries

Ep. 14 follows the extraordinary outside passions of three doctors from the I'm Also a Doctor docuseries.

Published December 05, 2022

Season 1, Episode 14

Following Laurel Road’s I’m Also a Doctor  docuseries, three doctors from the series share their inspiring passion projects and how their interests outside of medicine help make them better doctors

Hosts: Laurel Road Head of Design & Content, Eric Sutton
Guests: Dr. Phong Nguyen, Dr. Alexis Phaup, Dr. Christina Millar

Listen on Apple Podcast Listen on Spotify


Eric Sutton [00:00:08] Hi, everyone, this is Eric. And you’re listening to Financing Ambition, a Laurel Road podcast. Well, we’ve made it to our last podcast episode of 2022, and I’m excited because we have a very special episode. Our guests today are three incredibly unique doctors from around the country who are featured on our new docuseries, I’m Also a Doctor. The series highlights physicians and dentists who pursue extraordinary interests outside of their medical careers and examines the influence that these activities have on their mental health and job performance. You can check out the I’m Also a Doctor series on laurelroad.com/im-also-a-doctor/. So without further ado, let me introduce our guests, Dr. Alexis Phaup, Dr. Phuong Nguyen, and Dr. Christine Millar. Welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Phaup [00:01:05] Hey.

Dr. Nguyen [00:01:06] Hi!

Dr. Millar [00:01:07] Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Eric Sutton [00:01:08] All right. So, let’s kick things off by hearing maybe from each of you about your medical specialty and what your outside passion project is. Maybe we could get started with you first, Dr. Phaup.

Dr. Phaup [00:01:21] Thanks, Eric. Great to be here with you all. I am a general dentist based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. I went to LSU School of Dentistry down in New Orleans. I’m from Virginia Beach, but I got to live down in Louisiana for eight years. I was actually down there for Katrina, so that was an interesting time. I’ve been practicing now for ten years, and in addition to being a dentist, I’m also an equestrian.

Dr. Nguyen [00:01:47] Hey Eric, great to be here with you today. I’m Dr. Phuong Nguyen.  I’m a pediatric plastic surgeon and craniofacial surgeon based in Houston, Texas. I’m originally from Minnesota. So, I went to the University of Minnesota for medical school and college, kind of lived all over the place. I trained in general surgery at NYU, plastic surgery at UCLA, craniofacial surgery at Sick Kids in Toronto and I was in practice in Philadelphia at CHOP and University of Pennsylvania for a while. And now I’m in practice here in Houston, at the University of Texas and Children’s Memorial Hermann. All told, that’s 22 years from the time I started medical school. Oh, and in addition to being a pediatric plastic surgeon, I’m also a touring musician.

Dr. Millar [00:02:31] Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me. I’m Dr. Christine Millar. I’m an anesthesiologist based outside of Saint Louis in Illinois. And I’m from New York City (Queens/Westchester.) I went to NYU for undergrad and medical school. I went to residency in Washington University in Saint Louis, and I decided to stick around because the area was really fun. And in addition to being an anesthesiologist, I’m also a costume designer.

Eric Sutton [00:02:56] Okay, thank you all for being here. An equestrian, a touring musician, and a costume designer on top of being, of course, a dentist, a pediatric surgeon, and an anesthesiologist. That’s awesome. And it’s great to have such a diverse mix of both impressive backgrounds and impressive outside interests being represented here. And I know our listeners will be excited also to get to know each of you a bit more, and specifically to take a deeper dive into what those outside passions are of yours. So, Dr. Nguyen, can you talk a little bit about your passion project, how it was sparked, and how long you’ve been at it?

Dr. Nguyen [00:03:36] Thanks, Eric. You know, music has been a huge part of my life for as long as I can remember. And I was thinking the very, very first spark was 1987, when I was listening to a cassette tape of Guns N’ Roses, Appetite for Destruction. And the first time I heard the opening notes of Sweet Child of Mine, I knew I wanted to be part of that, whatever that was, because it was going to lead to some really good things. You know a few years later, I learned how to pick up a guitar, had a high school band that wasn’t particularly very good. But we were earnest, and this was in the early 90s and I just kept at it, just kept writing songs I knew wasn’t going to be very good in the beginning. But I kept going and eventually, I thought they got better and better. So, I’ve been writing music for about 28 years, playing music the whole time. I have a bunch of records out on every streaming platform and before that you know records, CDs, if you guys still have those.

Eric Sutton [00:04:31] I do.

Dr. Nguyen [00:04:32] Yeah, I still do it. You know, it’s such an integral part of who I am. And, you know, just earlier this morning, I was doing an operation, doing a cleft palate, and I had a brand new playlist that I was very proud to debut for the entire OR staff. So, you know, it’s just a part of you.

Eric Sutton [00:04:49] That’s awesome. Do you have kids?

Dr. Nguyen [00:04:51] I do have a daughter. She’s two and a half.

Eric Sutton [00:04:54] Okay. She’s maybe a little young to think of you as a rock star yet.

Dr. Nguyen [00:04:58] Well, she thinks of me as the guy who brings the pancakes.

Eric Sutton [00:05:01] Right. So that’s probably more important to her today. Right, it makes sense.

Dr. Nguyen [00:05:06] She did have a little cameo when Joe Biden got elected. I was singing with Demi Lovato on that inauguration video, and I got to sneak her on there. So, she was on national television at six months old.

Eric Sutton [00:05:20] That is awesome, good for her, and thank you for sharing that. So, Dr. Millar, what about your story? What is it that, you know, fills your coffers? What’s your passion project and how did that get started? And how long have you been working on that?

Dr. Millar [00:05:32] So ever since I was a kid, I think I’ve been obsessed with dresses. Just like the prettier, the better. Disney princess dresses, anime dresses, rufflely Lolita dresses, all sorts of dresses. So, I actually started trying to draw them out. And I was doing a lot of fashion illustration all through high school and middle school and all that. And I started sewing because I realized it wasn’t enough for me to just draw them. I really wanted to just wear them. And I just started by a couple of simplicity patterns and sewing them out. And in college, I was at NYU for undergrad. And there, you know, there’s New York Comic Con. So, I started to go to these conventions and make costumes for them, and I quickly realized my favorite costumes were, in fact, historical. And I sort of started branching more and more into historical costumes and trying to reproduce them, both as accurately as possible and occasionally just as fancifully as possible. And it was really fun. NYU was great because they have so many drawing, sewing, and costume classes as well as pre-med. So, I got to do both and I thought about which one I wanted to do. Do I really want to go the fashion illustration/costume design route or do I want to go, you know, the medical route? And I tried doing just art for a while and I really felt like I wasn’t that fulfilled. What I wanted to do was both all the time. So that’s what I really did. I focused on medicine, but I never stopped sewing and I just kept sewing in my free time.

Eric Sutton [00:06:55] Wow. That’s an interesting dichotomy of left-brain and right-brain interests. You know, you don’t see that very often. And that’s very interesting. Thank you. And okay, so last, of course, but not least, what about your external passion, Dr. Phaup? What is it that you that got you into being an equestrian and how long have you been at that?

Dr. Phaup [00:07:15] So I probably started riding when I was really little, like five at my uncle’s farm, you know, nothing serious. I took my first riding lesson, I was eight years old, one of our neighbors took me, and I’m sure my parents blame her for the rest of my life for that. Because once you’re a true horse girl, your horse girl for life, it never goes away. I might have had to take a break for a while for school. Definitely did not have time or money to ride, let alone have a horse in dental school. So, once I got out of dental school in 2012, there was no looking back, I started riding again, but I switched to English. I grew up riding Western, cowgirl stuff, chasing cows, and now I do the complete opposite and jump over jumps and do all of that. It’s a whole other world when you’re with animals, you don’t have to speak, and it’s just been really amazing to get back into riding and have that.

Eric Sutton [00:08:10] Right, very cool. And a really inspiring story for all the doctors in our audience. For folks to know that, hey, I can be a doctor and love what I do, and obviously care very deeply about my patients and providing care, without having to give up my love for the arts or creativity, whatever it might be. You can always continue to be your true, authentic self. And I think that’s an awesome and inspiring story. And I think that brings us actually to what’s at the heart of this docuseries that you all were gracious enough to participate in, which is how does being your true, authentic self make you a better doctor? So I’d love for each of you to talk a little bit about that and why you think having a passion outside of medicine is important to your own mental health or important to mental health, particularly for doctors. So, let’s start with you, Dr. Millar.

Dr. Millar [00:09:08] Thanks so much. Honestly, I think that it’s absolutely essential to be happy with who you are to be a better doctor, because you give so much of yourself taking care of these people. These people are often sick. They’re in pain. Sometimes they can be really grumpy and angry at you. They’re often angry at the whole system. So being able to be kind to them, be compassionate to them, no matter what I think is so important. And I think that being able to give yourself to your patients like that, you need to also be really happy with who you are and also at peace. So oftentimes, there’s so much death in anesthesia, there’s trauma, and so forth. So being able to go home and put that aside for a couple of hours and make something beautiful, I feel like it makes me a better person, and lets me go back to work the next day, being able to smile and, you know, be just as kind as I want to be.

Eric Sutton [00:09:56] Mm-hmm. Dr. Phaup, what about you?

Dr. Phaup [00:09:58] I  just think it’s so important to have something outside of medicine, dentistry, to focus yourself on. I feel like when your only emphasis on your life and how you define yourself is by your job can be really hard. Just like Dr. Millar said, you have so much empathy and you pour much of yourself already out. And if you only take that home and then the next day and the next day, that’s all you’re doing. It’s hard to keep giving yourself and giving to your patients that way. So being able to leave all that at the office and say, okay, now I get to focus on myself and what makes me happy allows you to decompress. And I think it also makes you more relatable to your patients. If you are just this doctor that’s stern, this is all I am it can be really hard for them to want to talk to you. But if you can maybe talk about your passion, they open up. They’re a little more open about what’s going on in their life because they see you as, oh, you’re actually a person.

Eric Sutton [00:10:54] Yeah, I hadn’t thought about that, relatability. That’s got to be important for doctor-patient relationship building. Dr. Nguyen, what about you? What do you think?

Dr. Nguyen [00:11:03] I would agree with everything that Dr. Millar and Dr. Phaup just said. The only thing I would add to that is I think there’s some three-dimensionality that that brings. And really, it’s a level of self-preservation, as they both alluded to, you know, medicine and dentistry and any type of work in that field. You really do, not just sacrifice all the time, but it is a service industry, the true service industry. You know, I think you’ve seen in the last couple of years when COVID swept through in the early days, it was it’s so emotionally toxic and the burnout factor is significant. So just having some level of dimensionality is truly a life preserver as well.

Eric Sutton [00:11:45] For sure. Yeah. You know, I can’t help but think as I’m hearing all of the stories that it feels like this has been for each of you, those passions have been building up for a lifetime. You know, I can’t help but think at how much time it must have taken to cultivate those outside interests. As we also know, it takes a lot of time to become a doctor. And then once you become a doctor to maintain the schedule of a doctor. So why don’t we talk a little bit about the topic of time management? How do you balance your passion project with the demanding work schedule of being a doctor?

Dr. Nguyen [00:12:22] I think, number one, you just have to be really passionate and fairly organized. I’m at a point in my life now where I have a family and a little girl, so that takes up a lot of my time. So, the “me time” decreases sequentially as you get older. But, even during residency, don’t tell my program I was working well over 80 hours a week. You know, you had to make time. Sure, you can sleep an extra hour, or you can get up and write a song. So, when I was doing my residency in New York, I ended up being on-call, and then post-call go into the studio, or vice versa. I’d be 12 on, and then go work my night job and play music at a studio and record things. So, I think that that kind of balanced it out. It was fun. It wasn’t work.

Eric Sutton [00:13:01] An escape. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. Dr. Millar, what do you think?

Dr. Millar [00:13:04] What I actually found was that I actually liked having something to do with my hands while I watch TV after, you know, a 16-hour shift. Even if I was tired, I’d just come home and I’d have some a basket of sewing that was, you know, vaguely mindless where I could just go and do a nice clean stitch and focusing my eyes on stitching as opposed to something else for even half an hour every single day, you know, that adds up, after a month that’s 15 hours, you know. After three months, that’s 45 hours. If a dress is like 100 hours in about six months, I’ve made one dress and completely honestly, that’s how long it would take me to make one dress at the time in residency. Six months. Now, I can make a dress in like four months. And it’s a lot more refreshing to be able to work faster now. But, you know, at the same time, I still work consistently. I now give myself one hour every day as opposed to half an hour every day, where I make myself work because slow progress is still progress.

Eric Sutton [00:14:00] Sure. And I think setting time aside for yourself is what you’re doing is a really important way to make sure that you are taking care of yourself. Dr. Phaup, what do you think?

Dr. Phaup [00:14:10] So for me, time management and having a schedule is so very important. Obviously, during the week I can’t go ride my horse until after work, and now is miserable with daylight savings changing because it’s pitch black by now. But I set a schedule every week. I have a standing lesson with my trainer, and I know I have that to look forward to at the end of the week. It gives me that drive. That’s what I’m working towards. You know and as a doctor, you go to school, you go to college, go to med school, dental school, whatever, and then boom, you’re working and then still having something where you’re learning and growing has been really great, and it’s just kept me on track with everything else.

Eric Sutton [00:14:49] So it sounds like you all had to make some sacrifices, some serious choices, you know, some of them extreme, maybe while you were pursuing those dual paths of your medical career and your personal passion in order to keep both of those interests alive and well. I wonder if there were also extreme opportunities that came along with having that outside passion project. Like, what’s the most extreme thing that you’ve done, or furthest place you may have gone or been able to go as a result of your outside passion. Dr. Millar, any stories for us?

Dr. Millar [00:15:24] So I love making historical costumes. So, one of my big dreams was to one day get to wear it at Versailles, you know, because the 18th century is my hands-down favorite and Marie Antoinette lived in Versailles. Anyway, it turns out that Versailles throws a ball once a year around the end of May. It’s always on a Monday because that’s when Versailles is actually close to the public. And you are only welcome in if you’re wearing a historically accurate dress from the 1690s to 1790. And so I got to go twice. I was supposed to go in 2020, but you know how that panned out. And I got to go in wearing one of my own handmade dresses. I put my husband in a court suit and we got to drink champagne in the Hall of Mirrors. And I also got to learn historic dancing in the Hall of Mirrors. And it was just absolutely incredible. I really recommend it. I have also been to Venice for Carnival, because there’s like two weeks of just 18th-century balls every single night. So that was really fabulous. But really, nothing beats the Versailles. It’s glorious.

Dr. Phaup [00:16:26] I don’t want to follow up to that.

Dr. Millar [00:16:29] You should go. You should go, I mean you should make yourself a riding habit from the 1700s and go.

Dr. Phaup [00:16:33] I’ll go with you. I’ll let you dress me and I’ll go with you so I don’t embarrass myself. No, I can’t say I have anything that extreme or cool right now. I guess as far as extreme goes, I did buy my horse without telling my husband.

Dr. Millar [00:16:57] Oh my god.

Dr. Phaup [00:16:58] So my husband was deployed in Afghanistan and could rarely talk to him. And in the horse world, when you find something fancy or for you, like, you’ve got to just go for it because somebody else is just going to outright do it. So once I finally talked to him, he was like, “What are you doing?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m bringing Ariel home.” And he was like, “Who is Ariel?” I was like, “Oh, the horse I bought.” We haven’t been able to travel that much, get into it that much in the horse world it’s very hard to be super competitive, to go to very fun places to show. But I have gone and watched them. So, I did get to go down to Miami and watch the show jumpers jump on the beach in Miami. And I will just tell you, as a spectator, that was cool. And they do it in Paris.

Eric Sutton [00:17:50] That would be cool. We’ve got a France theme going.

Dr. Phaup [00:17:52] So, one year maybe I could go watch them do that. They jump in front of the Eiffel Tower. That’s a goal, we’ll put that as an extreme goal.

Eric Sutton [00:18:00] Okay. I like it. It’s a good goal. Dr. Nguyen, what about you, any extreme stories of opportunity to share?

Dr. Nguyen [00:18:07] So I’ll tell you a funny story. You know, back in the early days, when I was in my early twenties and late teens, I used to tour. You know, it’s not as glamorous as you might think being in a car or van and having a $5 per diem and sleeping on floors, or your car. You know, I thought I was going to give it up as I went into medicine. But I started a band called Help the Doctor, in Los Angeles when I went to my plastic surgery residency. And our very first show at the Troubadour in L.A., it’s not a huge place but almost everybody ever known to mainstream music has played there. So that was our debut show, and we had our name on the marquee and there’s a line out the doors as I’m walking up to after soundcheck and thinking, wow, what’s going on here? And some guy comes up to me and he says, “Hey, the show is sold out. Do you want tickets?” So a guy was trying to scalp me my own tickets! I knew I had finally made it.

Eric Sutton [00:18:55] Yeah, that’s cool. That’s a pretty well-known venue for your first gig. That’s pretty amazing.

Dr. Nguyen [00:19:03] No, it was. It was great.

Eric Sutton [00:19:04] Awesome. Yeah, incredible. Those are really, really all three of those were were really great stories. And I imagine that those kinds of things make it feel like it’s worth it in the end. I can’t help but think as you’re telling me about them, that there’s like a pretty serious financial impact there and that, pursuing your passion probably did influence your financial decisions pretty seriously, I would think. Dr. Phaup, let’s start with you, for example. I know being an equestrian can be particularly expensive. You mentioned, you know, maybe it’s hard to travel, it’s hard to do shows, etc. Could you talk a little bit about the cost of that passion and just how having that passion has impacted your financial decisions over the years?

Dr. Phaup [00:19:49] Oh, absolutely. I mean, there’s the running joke in the horse world that how do you become a millionaire with horses? You start as a billionaire. You know there’s the outright cost of buying the horse. But then you’re caring for the horse. You need everything for the horse. Traveling to horse shows this, that, and the other. And I grew up riding, as I said, but had to stop when my parents got divorced and there wasn’t the money to do it. So that in hand with wanting to help people drove me to have a career where I could get my passion back. And then when I first got out of dental school, you know, you’re paying back loans, you’re not making that much money right away. So, I actually started by leasing a horse which is very common in the horse community, and in that time, saved up money, saved up money. And then, like I said, saw the horse I bought on Facebook and went and got her without my husband’s knowledge. And so, but I’ve had her five years now. We’ve started doing bigger shows and traveling around Virginia doing that. But again, it’s not just time management but financially setting a budget.

Eric Sutton [00:20:55] Yeah, I can imagine. Dr. Millar, what about with supplies and everything that you need, fabrics, and so forth? And I guess getting to Versailles isn’t cheap.

Dr. Millar [00:21:05] Completely honestly, sewing it can be as cheap as you want it or as expensive as you want it. You can sell your own undergarments and use cotton prints that are, you know, like $20 a yard. And you can start out relatively, I wouldn’t say cheap because $200 for a costume is still a lot of money. But at the same time, you can start lower end and, you know, work your way up. For me, when I first started, in residency, I actually moonlit for the money for fabric. And when I became an attending, you know, the first year don’t do what I did. I did not put much money into savings. I put everything into fabric and travel, because I figured future Christine, who has kids and can’t travel as much, she’ll put more into savings and current Christine does, so thank you past Christine for saddling me with that. So that being said though, about three years back I started a YouTube channel and honestly the YouTube channel pays for itself. And I get to work with fabrics I wouldn’t otherwise. There is no way that anesthesia money could pay for these fabrics. So, it’s been such a luxury.

Eric Sutton [00:22:04] Yeah, you’re investing in yourself.

Dr. Millar [00:22:06] So I guess the moral is, start a business, get Youtube. And don’t put money in savings?

Eric Sutton [00:22:13] I mean I don’t know, I don’t know about don’t put money in savings. Invest in yourself, maybe. Right? Invest in yourself and get a side hustle, you know, get your side hustle going. I think that’s really good advice.

Dr. Millar [00:22:26] I do want to tell people, don’t monetize your hobby if you don’t want to, because sewing for someone else and being miserable is terrible. Like I did commissions for people, and I hated it so much that I refunded them their money and gave them extra money in order to not sew for them.

Eric Sutton [00:22:40] Wow, yeah that’s an important distinction. Like, side hustle, but not necessarily monetizing your passion, but just something else that can potentially bankroll your passion you know. I think that that makes a big difference. Okay. So, Dr. Nguyen, when I heard you talking about a $5 a day per day, um, so obviously there has been financial considerations in your side passion as well. Tell us a little bit about those.

Dr. Nguyen [00:23:04] First of all, I’ve got to talk to you and Dr. Millar about how to monetize this. I do not have a financially solvent YouTube channel. You know, it’s interesting making music. I mean, you don’t need a lot to make music, right? I started doing it in the nineties, I had a Tascam four-track, which didn’t cost a whole lot of money, but cassette tapes and it didn’t sound very good. Back then you had to go to a real music studio, which is out of reach to make something that sounded good. But you look around today and how many people are making music in their bedrooms? The whole concept of music processing has completely changed and how we obtain music has completely changed and so accessible. So, I can make a studio sounding record in my bedroom. I have a tiny little studio in my in my house. So, the quality of the stuff that I have has improved, but the costs are not that much different. You have to get some software that sounds like a certain amplifier or things like that. All my records are available on iTunes and Spotify, which I get, I get a quarterly number. It’s not very big, like .01001 cent for every play or something. So, I have not quit my day job. Let’s just say that.

Eric Sutton [00:24:14] Sure. But that’s okay. Like Dr. Millar was saying, maybe monetizing your passion isn’t where it’s at. You know, when you already have a lucrative career as a doctor, so maybe it’s more about, like we said earlier, filling your coffers, being able to live as your true authentic self. Interesting, very cool stories about how your financial decisions were made throughout the years and how you’ve sacrificed and also had great opportunity as a result of your outside passions. I’m super grateful to the three of you for sharing these incredibly interesting and inspiring stories with us and also for being part of our I’m Also a Doctor docuseries. I’d love to close out today’s discussion with a pretty open-ended question. What career advice would each of you share with the folks who are listening, who want to become doctors or have become doctors, and who also have dual passions like you? So, Dr. Millar, kick us off, if you wouldn’t mind, with your best advice.

Dr. Millar [00:25:21] So for anyone who’s thinking about going to medical school and has medicine as a passion and a desire to help people but also loves something else, like seriously, seriously consider going for medicine. It’s so wonderfully rewarding. I love it so much. It’s getting to go to work and make people feel better, get them through a really scary part of their lives and you help so, so many people. And then you get to go home and you also get to do your other passion as well. There’s time enough for both. Maybe not in residency as much as you like, but afterwards yes. And the other part I just want to say is that the nice thing about medicine is that there are so many different paths to make it work for you. I found a job as an anesthesiologist where yes, I do 24-hour calls, but then I have post-call days. I get off early on my pre-call days and I still work full time and I still get to do everything that I want to do. And there’s, you know, hospitalists who work seven days on and seven days off. There are people who want to sleep at night. They go into dermatology. You know, there is a path for everyone. So, I just want to say, I really think that you can do it. I wanted to say, just do it.

Dr. Nguyen [00:26:30] I think that’s all sage advice. It’s easy to get downtrodden in medicine, particularly when you are in training because your life is not your own. And trust me, I did 11 years of training, and there are definitely some down times when you’re wondering whether it’s worth it. And I can tell you, I really love what I do as far as being a physician and having a skill set that can make an appreciable difference in people’s lives. Having said that, I don’t think having a different passion is mutually exclusive. You know, like as we talked about earlier, it gives you some dimensionality and it gives you something to talk about, certainly with your patients. But you’ve got one shot at life. You might as well make it the best that you can. The last thing I would say is don’t listen to the haters. You know, not everyone’s going to share that philosophy, particularly if you are in training. I think there has been a pendulum shift, a paradigm shift that because I can tell you the generations before us didn’t always necessarily have the best or most balanced personal lives. And I’ve seen a big shift in that in a healthier way. So, when I was in residency, I didn’t tell anyone. I was playing gigs, you know, at 1 a.m. on Sundays of course, of course nobody came. But then over time, that became as the word got out, more people started coming, I wasn’t trying to hide anymore. And it really became something that people want to congregate around. So bottom line, just do it.

Eric Sutton [00:27:47] Okay. All right. I’m noticing a theme. Dr. Phaup, what about you?

Dr. Phaup [00:27:51] You know, for anybody that wants to go for thinking about medical school, dental school, whatever, don’t let the loans or the money that goes into it scare you from it. I feel like hearing from all of us, seeing that like you get through it and you can still have a life outside of just that. Like if that is your passion, like Dr. Millar said, to help people like we all have, pursue that because it’s it’s going to pay off in the end when you’re doing something you love and something you truly care about, it shows and doesn’t feel like work. And I think an important thing is to like when you get out, don’t don’t feel guilty for wanting to pursue something outside of medicine. Don’t feel like that’s all you can do, like take time for yourself. I’ve had people that I’ve told about the docuseries and they’re like, I need to find something for me. It kind of is an “aha” moment where they’re like, well, what, what do I do for myself? Because all day, every day is for other people. You’re helping other people, you’re changing lives, getting them out of pain, whatever it is. But what you have for you? I think that’s really important that to find that whatever it is, maybe you had something when you were younger or something brand new. You’re never too old to try something new or start doing something. Even when you get out of school, you don’t have something, find something that you can be yourself with.

Eric Sutton [00:29:12] That’s great advice. Thank you all for being with us today. It was a really inspiring conversation and a really excellent reminder that in order to be the best at what you do, it’s also important to live your very best, most authentic life. To see I’m Also a Doctor episodes, featuring today’s amazing guests Dr. Millar, Dr. Nguyen and Dr. Phaup, follow Laurel Road on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. And visit us online at Laurel Road-dot-com-forward-slash, I’m also a doctor. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to our guests for being here. A happy holiday season to everyone, and we hope you’ll join us in 2023 for season two of our Laurel Road podcast, Financing Ambition.

DISCLOSURES [00:30:01] This podcast is produced for information purposes only and is not an offer or solicitation of any product. Any views, opinions, findings and conclusions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of Laurel Road or its affiliates. Laurel Road KeyBank and its affiliates are not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. The information contained in this recording may not be current, and Laurel Road has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. Neither Laurel Road nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty of any kind as to the accuracy or completeness of the information in this podcast and expressly disclaims any and all liabilities around such. Our guests have received compensation for promoting Laurel Road. For more information and full disclosures, go to Laurel Road dot com. Loan approval is subject to credit approval and program guidelines. Programs, rates, terms and products vary and are subject to change at any time without notice. Unauthorized use or reproduction of this podcast is expressly prohibited. Student loans, mortgages, personal loans, and credit cards are not FDIC insured or guaranteed. Laurel Road is a brand of KeyBank member, FDIC Equal Housing Lender and MLS number 399797.

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